1st part of the interview with the Member of the Bundestag Andreas Lämmel and member of the committee on economic and energy affairs
Mr. Lämmel, decarbonisation was announced on 8 June 2015. This means that the energy supply must, until 2100, do without coal, natural gas and crude oil. And when this happens, you inevitably open up a big market for renewable energies. What kind of preparation is made in the Bundestag?
Andreas Lämmel: According to resolutions the decarbonisation is actually planned to run over a very long period, up to the end of this century. And insofar I am convinced that within the next 50 up to 60 years the existing fossil energies will continue to form a focus, since it is true that it might be possible to supply the total need with renewable energies, for instance in Germany. But, since such renewable energies are not permanently available, a base load energy produced through the fossil power plants must be secured.
You come from a German Federal State, where fossil energies play a major role. North Rhine-Westphalia has the same problem. How was the decarbonisation project absorbed by your people in Saxony?
Andreas Lämmel: We hold the view that because of the current economic situation we must especially make sure that jobs will be preserved. Insofar our people in Saxony remain committed to brown coal, which has been produced since 1920. And this is the reason why a coal phase-out can only be a long process. It is not possible to just turn the switch overnight and feel that the energy production has now been subjected to decarbonisation. The process has already been initiated in Germany and the renewable energies are on the rise. If you compare the figures reflecting the energy production, you will find out that in Germany we have installed ten times as much capacity of renewable energies than of coal, but in total the production output of renewable energies hardly exceeds that of coal. This disproportion, namely ten times as much installed energy performance versus a similar rate of return must indeed be clearly emphasised. It shows that, in Germany, the energy supply cannot possibly be secured without the base-load production from fossil energy sources.
Now the French say that since the Fukushima nuclear disaster Germany has decided in favour of using less nuclear power, but in turn more energy from fossil sources; as a result, the air is being polluted in Europe. How do you respond to that?
Andreas Lämmel: I cannot understand this viewpoint, since very old power plant units were bit by bit shut down. This is an ongoing process. On the other hand, Germany's share in the worldwide CO2 production is so small that even an immediate shut-down of all German coal-fired power plants would not make a real contribution to a better world climate. On the contrary: If the huge number of Chinese or Russian power plants will be equipped with the modern German technology, thus with flue gas cleaning systems in order to reduce dust emission, the contribution made to secure the world climate would be bigger. What the French did for themselves, was to have the nuclear energy recognised as a renewable energy. So each country has a different energy mix. Each country must find its own way. But Germany is an industrialised country and we need a secure and affordable energy supply, while we attach great importance to ecological energy production.
Now let us talk about the German-African relations. The former French Minister of the Environment, Jean-Louis Borloo, introduced the initiative "Energy for Africa", which has actually developed into a foundation. He says: If the industrialised countries help Africa to produce more electricity, this means two percent more growth per year for Europe. Would you, as a German politician, be ready to get involved?
Andreas Lämmel: In general it is clear that the availability of energy forms the basis for economic development in Africa. For instance, this was precisely the underlying reason for the idea of the Deserttech initiative, which intended to construct a large number of solar and wind power plants in North Africa, in order to produce energy. The project did not function for various reasons. It is also undisputed that support should be given by Germany or Europe. The only thing that bothers me is the attempt made in Europe to dictate to the African countries what kind of energy policy they should pursue.
Who do you mean?
Andreas Lämmel: I mean for instance that attempts have now been made to adopt resolutions at the World Bank or other development aid associations, so as to prevent the funding of newly constructed coal-fired power plants. In my opinion it might be one step too far to criticise an African country which has defined its own energy concept. Each country must reflect on how to secure a base load, and subsequently to get ahead with renewable energies on a decentralised basis. I feel, however, that for Africa a stable production of energy is the key to further economic development.
Can you give some concrete examples for cooperation with an African country in the field of energy?
Andreas Lämmel: There are different development projects, partially financed through the World Bank and partially also through other sources, wherein German financial institutes or German suppliers are involved. And in the area of renewable energies there is an utmost interesting project in Ruanda, in practice providing for solar energy plants installed for ordinary citizens. The model is designed in a way that the solar plant can be amortised through the price of electricity. The prices must be structured in a way that they secure a refinancing of the installed plants. Germany participates in such projects. In Congo, for example, we endeavour to obtain a stable energy supply. A participation in the big waterworks project Inka III is currently under consideration.
That is a very large project.
Andreas Lämmel: But also very interesting for us. So, one could say that in different African locations we as Germans are involved with all sorts of technologies, so as to drive the energy supply agenda forward.
Mr. Mabousso Thiam, Director General of a promotion agency for medium-sized businesses in Senegal, told me on 30 May 2015 ago that most Europeans offering renewable energies in Africa just have rural regions in mind. The purchasing power, however, can be found in middle income groups and in the cities. And I assume that your project in Ruanda would be interesting for him.
Andreas Lämmel: The project currently running in Ruanda is likewise a funded project, which helps us to gain experience. Piloted by a new approach, the project shall be brought to series maturity. If that works as expected, it makes no difference whether the investments are made in the city or in rural areas. What matters is to install a plant, to route power cables and mount sockets, so that you can watch TV, operate a refrigerator and have enough electricity for the household. The plant, however, must refinance itself over the price of electricity. Otherwise all these models will be unworkable. We can see in Africa that not all people came to realise that they have to pay for water and electricity.
But there are no such problems in the big cities.
Andreas Lämmel: Exactly. That is now the decisive factor. We must recognise that this entire technology is not cheap. It has been developed in Germany, and the Germans pay more for it. If we now want to enter the African market, we need systems which are affordable and from a technical point of view adjusted to the local circumstances in a way that they are not highly complicated and that on-site maintenance is possible. It must simply be possible to use these systems on site, since there are various problems such as dust, which of course is very negative for solar panels. There is also the problem of high solar irradiation. But solutions will be found, which will be achievable in the cities. I am truly convinced of the feasibility of such project implementation. Right now, however, we might be five years too early.
Interview conducted by Ibrahim Guèye.
